The Mars & Venus thread

[Bruno]

now seriously guys, i think noone but you two is reading this.

There are 138 views for this thread, so obviously there are a lot more people who enjoy our debate.

if i had to guess, i'd say that you guys are very similar in personality, you just dont see it

Sometimes it's difficult to see if you are holding a huge mirror in front of you to show some jerk the effects of his own behaviour.
The only similarity I see is the doggedness with which we defend our positions.
But for the rest, seriously, we are very different, or else we wouldn't have such a debate at all.

[robot]

There are 138 views for this thread, so obviously there are a lot more people who enjoy our debate.

view = each time someone clicks on that thread. that person can, like me, automatically open the newest posts and click through, until he exhausts the posts.
i'd say that number should be divided by 10.
that leaves a dozen or so dudes with not much to do during the day

anyway. feel free to debate on your views and positions if that makes you happy. this thread is aptly located in the blah-blah-nonsense, so have fun, got nothing more to say. except maybe that the "truth" is probably a bit of this and a bit of that

[Am0rIn0]

i dont care if somebody reads this topic or not, psychology is a hobby for me and i am interested in this, otherwise wouldnt took time to bring it down, review and refresh my experience, but maybe it is too off topic and complex for a porn board.

anyway this debate is over for me, because we turn in a circle and i have no time to go more into details, for the theory there is enough literature around and for practical experience everybody must go out and get to know women in real life ... also when i write fast i will do too many mistakes and bruno would feel strong as a grammar teacher again.

everything what has to be told from my side has been told, my examples were extreme, but believe it or not i like girls and not only for sex and most of them like me. bruno shall live with his opinion and if this is what makes him happy it shall be that way. i also will live mine and be happy for sure, maybe someday i will meet the woman who has everything that i appreciate, match my standards and i will do everything to make her happy in the long run.

yesterday i talked to a girl i layed 2 month ago and didnt talked with her again till now, but she is fine, back in a relationship and doesnt seem angry with me, because i have never promised her something serious and was honest with her. it is often like this if they feel they cant get you they will take the next or a former one again to forget about you asap. so i almost would call myself a couple therapist. ok bruno i understand if you cant laugh about this one.

[Am0rIn0]

except maybe that the "truth" is probably a bit of this and a bit of that

btw when did you give a golden shower to a girl last time?

[Bruno]

i dont care if somebody reads this topic or not, psychology is a hobby for me and i am interested in this, otherwise wouldnt took time to bring it down, review and refresh my experience, but maybe it is too off topic and complex for a porn board.

anyway this debate is over for me, because we turn in a circle and i have no time to go more into details, for the theory there is enough literature around and for practical experience everybody must go out and get to know women in real life ... also when i write fast i will do too many mistakes and bruno would feel strong as a grammar teacher again.

This debate is over for you? That would be a pity, because I thought we were just starting.

Of course your examples are extreme, it's only logical, because also your views towards women are extreme. It's because you seem to interpret the dating rules in the wrong way. Some women play hard-to-get yes, but if they complain AFTERWARDS it NEVER means that they play hard-to-get, because that's what they do BEFORE! It can only mean that they are sincerely disappointed, which is a pity for her but also for yourself.

yesterday i talked to a girl i layed 2 month ago and didnt talked with her again till now, but she is fine, back in a relationship and doesnt seem angry with me,

This sentence shows your expectations about this meeting, and the relief afterwards that she wasn't angry. But what you should ask yourself in a situation like this is, WHY you are expecting that she may be angry? Surely it must have something to do with your earlier meeting with this girl! If that earlier meeting had ended with you bringing her to heaven, what on earth could make you think she would be angry about? So at least something unpleasant must have been going on in the past which gives you this expectation, or maybe it's the result of past experiences with other girls who reacted in an angry way afterwards while you had no clue what she was complaining about.

it is often like this if they feel they cant get you they will take the next or a former one again to forget about you asap.

If a girl has the feeling that she can't get a guy, this guy has to behave totally the opposite of what you do, so this seems highly unlikely to me. It's very clear that you are somebody who is mainly focusing on "short term goals", like having sex with her as quickly as possible, and then move on. If you want them to feel that they can't get you, you first have to stop making stupid jokes for a start, because you will be like an open book for them. This way, you will only attract the easy girls, who are not (yet) smart enough to recognize what these stupid jokes tell about the guy standing before them, because they are too busy enjoying the attention he gives. So if you really think this, it's just what you WANT to believe, in order to be able to deny your unability to satisfy the girl's needs, without feeling regret.

because i have never promised her something serious and was honest with her.

Maybe you didn't promise her a relationship, but that doesn't mean that you both agreed about the intention of the date. After all, you also didn't promise to leave her afterwards. Most girls will automatically expect that men will invest time and efforts in them, also after sex. So it's important to let them know before what your intentions are, or you become a heart-breaker. Girls really hate this, and if they complain directly to you, you can be sure, that they already complained earlier to the persons who are close to their hearts, like family, friends, and other girls. Girls feel very social and protective towards each other, and so they will "warn" each other about guys who are notorious for heart-break behaviour.

so i almost would call myself a couple therapist. ok bruno i understand if you cant laugh about this one.

Oh, but it was just the opposite! I almost pissed my pants because this was just too funny!

[Bruno]

btw when did you give a golden shower to a girl last time?

More and more I start to understand the reason of the complaints...

[Am0rIn0]

you didnt understand anything i wrote before and even turn my words like it fits to your black&white world, if i would say the world is spherical you would state that it is flat. nobody complains, nobody is angry i told you this because in your narrow world you think women will become and feel fooled if fucked without relationship. women only get angry if you deny them or lie on them. neither i date girls just for sex, i date them for talking, flirting and sex is the dot on top of the "i". you have a very selective view or should read more carefully.

you never peed on a girl?! now you really start to disappoint me. you would wonder how many are into it, i also was surprised first that girls have that much fun when peeing on them and in their mouths. in every mental healthy women stucks a nasty little devil she isnt even aware of often, because no guy before was able to activate that devil because of his unsecureness and lack of experience. women only need somebody who is able show them the way of their sexuality and activate that devil. they will never show this devil to a guy who will judge them for their sexuality because of his narrow point of views and will play the pure girl to them. period.

[Bruno]

you didnt understand anything i wrote before and even turn my words like it fits to your black&white world, if i would say the world is spherical you would state that it is flat.

If there is a strong believer of the Grey World, it's me. I don't believe in a black & white world at all, and I understood your words perfectly. And above of that, I can justify my opinions, because they are based on an ideology. Your opinions are based on pragmatism, and especially on short-term results. If you don't understand what I mean, I will explain it here:

You asked me to search on internet on the world "SHIT TEST". That was a very interesting search actually, because it learned me a lot about how people like you think and their view of the society, and women in general. It started all with a lot of results about "seduction communities", and a lot of what you say seems to come from those people and their warped theories and logics. So I decided to dig some further to find out the ideology behind this all and the foundations, because every ideology must have a fundament on which you have to build. It took me actually quite long (several days) to find out this ideology, but yesterday I discovered it: It's NLP ( = neuro-linguistic programming).

NLP is based on the idea, "that if you want to survive in this world, you need to manipulate others. If you don't do this, you will be manipulated, which is a sign of weakness." OK, so does this theory have any scientific proof? In other words, are there any psychologists or neurologists that support this theory, based on the results of their scientific experiments? (Because they claim that their techniques come from the psychology of women and their needs after all!) Well, not really, I found out. In fact, it's the OPPOSITE. NLP and other manipulation theories are based on emotional perceptions, instead of rational information that we can analyse. So those sites, which claim to tell you how to deal with girls, actually teach you how to use manipulation to seduce girls, in order to get them in bed within approximately seven hours.

The first lie that they tell you, is that you need to approach women using the shock-and-awe theory, to eliminate social pressure on yourself. This is not true, because social pressure is always present in any society, and can not be eliminated. So what they are doing is manipulating the people who want to be part of these "seduction societies" by making them believe, that an individual can "control" his environment by acting like an asshole, because his perception is what counts, and "there is no truth than this perception." The members go out on the hunt for "targets" (another sign that they see women like objects and not humans) and "close" them. All this kind of language is part of the manipulation and makes the members believe even stronger, that their ideology is correct. They are so brain-washed by the impressive stories on these websites, usually told by some guru who claims that he can get any girl he wants (which is also bull-shit of course), that they don't see that they are being fooled. They are being fooled, because the theory sounds logical and easy for men, and gives them tools to get what they want quickly, and they encourage them not to think in a rational and sceptic way about this theory without any foundations, because too much thinking indicates weakness, and showing weakness is only for pussies. Also, the idea that any woman always will do what they say sounds appealing for them, because it comes from the old instinct of a man that he wants to have power and feel dominant, regardless of how other people see him. After all, it's HIS OWN perception that is the truth, and not the perception of others.

The second lie is where the theory starts to get really nasty! And I will explain why:
If men want to get themselves brain-washed it's of course their own choice, and it's only themselves who suffer from this. They make a decision from behind their computer screens in their own safe homes that they will follow this new ideology, because they don't want to be seen as "frustrated losers". They are the fish that bite without thinking about their own values. They let themselves be called frustrated losers by some self-proclaimed seduction guru that looks like one of the creepiest looking men since Vlad Dracula, and their brains are not even able to recognize that such people, who are so good in manipulating others, are probably also manipulating THEM to believe in his pseudoscientific fantasy stories!!!



So what is this second lie? That "girls want to get manipulated". Ask any girl if she want to be manipulated by a player, and you have a 100% chance that she will say "NO". So why do they allow these players to manipulate them then? Because manipulation works the same way as things like hypnosis, handreading, predicting the future, illusionists, etcetera. All these mind-fucking tricks are based upon manipulation, illusion and fooling people. Fortune tellers are people who can cold-read and pick up signals which they use to tell people what they want to hear, not what is their future of course. So if you seek your fortune in such things, you don't do yourself a favour, because you are fucking up your own mind. Not a problem of course, as long as you know beforehand that you will be fooled. It's like playing poker, everybody knows the rules and still some guys complain that they lose their money every time. Well, don't complain I would say, because you AGREED beforehand that you played the game, and you knew that poker is about manipulation. No problem!

BUT (and this is the most important part of my story, so here it comes):

If you meet girls in the street or in a bar, or at any social gathering of people, it's a different situation. You are approaching them with the goal of manipulating them like was explained by the seduction guru. But they are NOT part of the game, because they are just passing by. They didn't agree with you to be manipulated. Normal guys just talk with these girls and be nice like happens in 90% of the time, and if they are rejected, they respect her and that's it. But the people from these seduction communities are using NLP techniques which make girls do things that they don't want to do at all. So actually you are psychologically abusing them. Women are emotional humans, so they will much easier fall for these tricks, and there are even researches that show, that people can become ADDICTED to manipulation, like a drug. Watch for example this video on YouTube where some master of manipulation can make an unknown passenger give him his watch and mobile phone, and he doesn't even hesitate for one second when doing so!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-TURhK90_8

This is exacly what happens with a lot of girls who visit bars, hoping to find a nice guy, and end up being the victim of manipulation. Only people who are egocentric and don't care at all about women and their feelings can do these things, because the only thing that counts for them is short-term results and their own pleasure and ego. If you ever had some experience from a holiday where somebody stole your wallet or made you pay for something twice the amount of its value, you probably know what it feels like for a girl when she will realize afterwards that she is being manipulated to do things she didn't want to do.

nobody complains, nobody is angry i told you this because in your narrow world you think women will become and feel fooled if fucked without relationship. women only get angry if you deny them or lie on them. neither i date girls just for sex, i date them for talking, flirting and sex is the dot on top of the "i". you have a very selective view or should read more carefully.

You are now pulling back, and try to weaken the words that you said earlier. That's not very classy.
Of course people can have sex without a relationship, as long as they both agree with that without the involvement of manipulation.
If you have sex with a woman 30-60 minutes after you met her for the first time (what you said earlier), it's almost impossible that she makes this choice with a clear mind.
So either she is drunk or drugged, or being manipulated by a player. Gentlemen who have respect for women will not abuse her like that, because they care about their girl and want her to enjoy herself as well.
Of course there can be SOME girls who love this game and don't care, but the far majority of them will get the shivers of a quick and unpleasant fuck in a dirty toilet of some bar with a dominant alpha guy.
They will regret and complain afterwards, or get angry, because they feel like they are being abused and manipulated, which is entirely true, because these emotions come afterwards, when they thought about the situation again with a clear mind and find out the truth.

you never peed on a girl?! now you really start to disappoint me. you would wonder how many are into it, i also was surprised first that girls have that much fun when peeing on them and in their mouths. in every mental healthy women stucks a nasty little devil she isnt even aware of often, because no guy before was able to activate that devil because of his unsecureness and lack of experience. women only need somebody who is able show them the way of their sexuality and activate that devil. they will never show this devil to a guy who will judge them for their sexuality because of his narrow point of views and will play the pure girl to them. period.

One of the rules that I usually have, is that I would only do things to a girl that I don't care being done to myself.
So if you also let those girls pee in your mouth as well for their enjoyment, it's OK.
This is the basics of a healthy relationship, regardless if this relationship is for one day or ten years.
You get what you give.
If you give manipulation, people will manipulate you too.
If you show respect and be nice, people will respect you too.
If you dump girls like trash, you will be dumped too.
Period.

[Am0rIn0]

i agree with you mostly about pick-up. there are some crazy "gurus" who make a shit load of money with it especially in the usa. they teach there followers to play a role, to not beeing themself and to manipulate girls. but trust me in most cases girls notice when a man is not himself. about nlp i never took care, i guess this only something for real control fanatics.

here is the difference, i dont play a role i am just myself, natural and very straight, without any physical fears, i dont manipulate, but when a woman gets horny and i am horny (what is not that easy in the meantime) we will have a good time. lets say with meeting, dating and fucking lots of women you develope a special charisma over the time, an inner harmony, relaxation and unneedyness what women finds very attractive. or would you call it manipulation by simply flirting and joking with a woman just to make her enjoy the time? when girls get cute, laugh and smile it is not manipulation it is just natural way of life. girls want to have fun, psychical and physical.

pick-up is just someting to press female behaviour into a logical context. very interesting to know it, there are some good theories which match my experience, but also lots of crap. there are dozens of different variants, every guru prays a different one. us is more about manipulations games and german is more about personality development to develop natural selfesteem. but theorie about shit tests is true, you can test it, it is a method to test the self confidence and integrity of a man. that is why most pick-up followers will fail these test.

i dont have sex 30 - 60 minutes after i met somebody, i wrote within that duration that you can get her aroused. usually it takes about 3-10 hrs during one or a few dates. so it is like getting to know each other, spend the evening and if there is fire in the air to finish that evening with physical pleasure. if not, than everybody goes different ways, or maybe a 2nd date occurs. there are no rules as long everybody feels good, is happy and tolerates each other decision.

nobody weakens words, you just push people into a corner quite fast, like calling people with different philosophy assholes etc.

"If you give manipulation, people will manipulate you too.
If you show respect and be nice, people will respect you too.

depends, powerful people like politicians manipulate a lot, i wonder if it is really possible to become really powerful without manipulation. respect also depends, being nice is often considered as weakness, saying yes to everything and beeing too patient will get missused.

i would say it that way, if somebody respects me, i will also respect him. if he is nice to me without any intentions i will be friendly to him.

"If you dump girls like trash, you will be dumped too."

no girl is dumped as long you didnt promise her something. to kiss her isnt a promise to marry her someday.

btw getting pissed is a submissive behaviour, thats why many girls enjoy that game.

[Bruno]

i agree with you mostly about pick-up. there are some crazy "gurus" who make a shit load of money with it especially in the usa. they teach there followers to play a role, to not beeing themself and to manipulate girls. but trust me in most cases girls notice when a man is not himself. about nlp i never took care, i guess this only something for real control fanatics.

here is the difference, i dont play a role i am just myself, natural and very straight, without any physical fears, i dont manipulate, but when a woman gets horny and i am horny (what is not that easy in the meantime) we will have a good time. lets say with meeting, dating and fucking lots of women you develope a special charisma over the time, an inner harmony, relaxation and unneedyness what women finds very attractive. or would you call it manipulation by simply flirting and joking with a woman just to make her enjoy the time? when girls get cute, laugh and smile it is not manipulation it is just natural way of life. girls want to have fun, psychical and physical.

What you say here already makes a lot more sense and logic than before. The only thing I disagree with, is that somebody's charisma is a result of dating with a lot of women. There are many different people with charisma, and some of them are dating a lot, and some of them choose to marry already at early age with their first girlfriend, so these things can not be related. What I believe much more, is that people with a lot of charisma have a bigger attraction on other people, not only girls but also friends or other relatives in general, because they have a positive and independent attitude in life, which is only good.

us is more about manipulations games and german is more about personality development to develop natural selfesteem.

Although it has nothing to do with the USA or Germany, this difference between the two theories is indeed important and even crucial for success. The second method is always better than the first, because it changes something fundamentally, while the first one just teaches you what to do to "pretend" to be a cool guy. This is what I meant with short-term results earlier, that it may work for a while, but that your true intentions always will come out eventually. Respect for yourself and respect for others is key, if people don't have one of those, they likely have a problem.

but theorie about shit tests is true, you can test it, it is a method to test the self confidence and integrity of a man. that is why most pick-up followers will fail these test.

The term "shit test" is based upon the idea that a woman is manipulating a man, because she thinks (for some reason) that he is not showing his real face. So in fact, this negative reaction is a result of his negative behaviour of trying to be cooler than he really is. If he behaves naturally, there is no need for a woman to manipulate him with tests. This is what I meant with "you get what you give", because her reaction is usually based on what you said before. This is how conversations work.

nobody weakens words, you just push people into a corner quite fast, like calling people with different philosophy assholes etc.

It's not about different philosophies, it's about different intentions, and different actions that are the result of these intentions. If a guy is manipulating a girl with the goal of sex, he is not presenting himself like he is, but he is presenting himself in a way that she will like him, that's a big difference. Of course people can meet each other in a club and there can be some chemistry that results in sex, but it's impossible that people can predict this beforehand, unless they use manipulation techniques. Secondly, if they use these techniques, they can not focus on the girls they like most, but they need to focus on the girls that are most susceptible for manipulation in order to make it succeed. There are a lot of guys who go out with the intention to have sex with a stranger, when they have no idea who they will meet and if they will like them. So the focus is not on the girl, but on the act of sex. The girl just becomes the instrument which can be used to reach this goal, which is disrespectful towards the girl. This is what I mean with "asshole" or "bad guy" behaviour, it means having bad intentions.

depends, powerful people like politicians manipulate a lot, i wonder if it is really possible to become really powerful without manipulation.

Yes, but in politics there are usually rules that need to be obeyed. If politicians spread lies or use corruption (which are both forms of manipulation) and people find out about this, they will not vote on them because they don't trust them. Manipulation results in distrust, and so it will be ineffective in politics in the long run.

respect also depends, being nice is often considered as weakness, saying yes to everything and beeing too patient will get missused.

Saying yes to everything means having no respect for yourself, and like you say, this is indeed not good. Being nice namely means not only having respect for others, but also for yourself.

no girl is dumped as long you didnt promise her something. to kiss her isnt a promise to marry her someday.

Of course not. But if a girl complains, at least there must be a reason for that. Maybe she expected something different from her date than you, which is strange, because usually people talk before having sex, to avoid any misunderstandings.

btw getting pissed is a submissive behaviour, thats why many girls enjoy that game.

I have to tell you, that I had to read this many times before I finally understood that you were meaning "getting pissed" literally!

Enjoying it when somebody pisses on you is a bit of an unusual fetish for many people, but OK, as long as people clean up the mess afterwards there is no harm in it I think.
Why do you think it's submissive behaviour? Does it feel different when she pisses on you then? Seems to be more like having some fun without any dominance or submission involved.
Of course there are the stories of some idiotic American soldiers pissing on people they just killed, as a form of humiliation.
And some animals have the use of pissing on certain places to mark their territory.
But a normal guy who pisses on a girl to show her dominance? Hmmm...

[Bruno]

also when i write fast i will do too many mistakes and bruno would feel strong as a grammar teacher again.

It's not that I want to bring this topic deliberately back to life again, but there was only one thing that I wanted to say about this quote, because I'm not stupid:

When people make spelling mistakes because they write fast, they make different mistakes than when they do because they don't know grammar.
For example, when you say "It's a shsme" instead of "It's a shame", it's likely that this is due to fast writing, and not because you don't know that "shame" is written with an A.
Secondly, the "S" is next to the "A" on a computer keyboard, which is another sign of fast writing.

BUT:
When you write "Many girls complaint afterwards", this mistake can not occur because of fast writing, but only because the person doesn't know the grammar.
Of course I don't know which country you are from, but if it's an English speaking country or if you would really have a master's degree, this is unlikely to happen.

So I don't want to be a grammar teacher, I just wanted to show that you are not honest about what you say about fast writing.

[Am0rIn0]

also when i write fast i will do too many mistakes and bruno would feel strong as a grammar teacher again.

It's not that I want to bring this topic deliberately back to life again, but there was only one thing that I wanted to say about this quote, because I'm not stupid:

When people make spelling mistakes because they write fast, they make different mistakes than when they do because they don't know grammar.
For example, when you say "It's a shsme" instead of "It's a shame", it's likely that this is due to fast writing, and not because you don't know that "shame" is written with an A.
Secondly, the "S" is next to the "A" on a computer keyboard, which is another sign of fast writing.

BUT:
When you write "Many girls complaint afterwards", this mistake can not occur because of fast writing, but only because the person doesn't know the grammar.
Of course I don't know which country you are from, but if it's an English speaking country or if you would really have a master's degree, this is unlikely to happen.

So I don't want to be a grammar teacher, I just wanted to show that you are not honest about what you say about fast writing.

sorry for writing "complaint" instead of "complained", hope you are happy now. of course this is a result of fast writing and i can reassure you: i am not a native speaker and if you are dutch i live quite in your neighbourhood.

[Am0rIn0]

but theorie about shit tests is true, you can test it, it is a method to test the self confidence and integrity of a man. that is why most pick-up followers will fail these test.

The term "shit test" is based upon the idea that a woman is manipulating a man, because she thinks (for some reason) that he is not showing his real face. So in fact, this negative reaction is a result of his negative behaviour of trying to be cooler than he really is. If he behaves naturally, there is no need for a woman to manipulate him with tests. This is what I meant with "you get what you give", because her reaction is usually based on what you said before. This is how conversations work.

this is an unconscious process, a natural program running in females to check the strength and power of a man to evaluate if he can give good offspring with his genes what would make him sexual attractive. i only would call it manipulation if it would be conscious.

nobody weakens words, you just push people into a corner quite fast, like calling people with different philosophy assholes etc.

It's not about different philosophies, it's about different intentions, and different actions that are the result of these intentions. If a guy is manipulating a girl with the goal of sex, he is not presenting himself like he is, but he is presenting himself in a way that she will like him, that's a big difference. Of course people can meet each other in a club and there can be some chemistry that results in sex, but it's impossible that people can predict this beforehand, unless they use manipulation techniques. Secondly, if they use these techniques, they can not focus on the girls they like most, but they need to focus on the girls that are most susceptible for manipulation in order to make it succeed. There are a lot of guys who go out with the intention to have sex with a stranger, when they have no idea who they will meet and if they will like them. So the focus is not on the girl, but on the act of sex. The girl just becomes the instrument which can be used to reach this goal, which is disrespectful towards the girl. This is what I mean with "asshole" or "bad guy" behaviour, it means having bad intentions.

your mistake is that you believe women dont like sex and to have sex would be a big deal for them. but every mental healthy woman simply loves sex, even more than men. the clitoris is only made for sexual stimulation. if you ever gave multiple orgasms to a a completely aroused woman you will get this proved. they always love a great fuck if they know that they can get it from you without any intentions for lovely relationship. women are such sexual and sensual away from prom public and behind closed doors but they only can show it to the men who understand this and who are fine with it without judging them or calling them sluts.

depends, powerful people like politicians manipulate a lot, i wonder if it is really possible to become really powerful without manipulation.

Yes, but in politics there are usually rules that need to be obeyed. If politicians spread lies or use corruption (which are both forms of manipulation) and people find out about this, they will not vote on them because they don't trust them. Manipulation results in distrust, and so it will be ineffective in politics in the long run.

maybe in switzerland. but within eu every rules and laws got broke. political and medial manipulation is a fine process, it is that good that majority of people dont even notice it.

respect also depends, being nice is often considered as weakness, saying yes to everything and beeing too patient will get missused.

Saying yes to everything means having no respect for yourself, and like you say, this is indeed not good. Being nice namely means not only having respect for others, but also for yourself.

we have different definitions of the term "nice" what you mean above i would call friendly. there is nothing against beeing friendly.

no girl is dumped as long you didnt promise her something. to kiss her isnt a promise to marry her someday.

Of course not. But if a girl complains, at least there must be a reason for that. Maybe she expected something different from her date than you, which is strange, because usually people talk before having sex, to avoid any misunderstandings.

maybe after getting to know each other i expects sex and she expects a relationship. but where do we match each other? nobody has a right to get what he expects. i also can go home without sex and wouldnt complain because i had a good talk in a nice restaurant with her. you make the mistake to place expectations and needs of women above the needs of men. but i see them as equal. as a man my need is to flirt with and lay many different women.

but complaining is often just a shit test anyway. to give a simple example: if you forget your gf's birthday and she complains it is fine and you should say sorry and invite her for dinner. but if you forgot to close the tooth paste and she makes drama about every small incident it is nothing else than a shit test, some guys would become submissive and excuse about everything but i would tell her that she shall shut up and better suck my nuts. and she would do it and respects you for your strength towards her. as man it is all about having nuts.

[Bruno]

your mistake is that you believe women dont like sex and to have sex would be a big deal for them.

I never said that women don't like sex, but it is indeed true that sex is a bigger deal for them than it is for men. The reasons for this are 1) social pressure (they don't want to be seen as a slut, which is the commonly accepted view about women who have sex with a lot of different men by many people - but not me - in society), and 2) there needs to be some kind of emotional connection with a guy who they think is special for them. So if you go to a bar with the intention to have sex instead of meeting interesting people in the first place, the only way to achieve this is manipulation (to make her think that she is special for you). In other words, your are hiding your true intentions, and she will only find out afterwards. This leads to confusion and rejection from her side. So usually the "players", who enjoy to play the game instead of thinking about the persons behind the women, have a lot of different partners, but they will not be able to create something special with one of them, because the sex is the ultimate goal for them. After orgasm, they simply fall asleep or start to act like jerks, because they already "achieved" their goal. Who cares???

they always love a great fuck if they know that they can get it from you without any intentions for lovely relationship.

Almost every woman prefers to have some kind of emotional chemistry with their partner MUCH more than just plain sex with as many different men. This is how they are biologically programmed. This is also why in the animal world, the males run after the females, and not the other way around. The males are horny, they jump the females, she tries to escape, but because the males are physically stronger they can grab and fuck them. This is how things work if people don't use their brains also. They are sexually frustrated or horny, they can't control their feelings, and so it's more important to "score" than to respect other beings.
If you say that women "ALWAYS" want a great fuck, it means that you probably have mastered yourself the art of picking the weakest and most vulnerable girls who can never say no because of the fear to be rejected, and those are usually the same group that will be always the easiest victims for pimps, players, and cheaters. I've talked with enough of them who hate it and always wonder why they attract "the wrong men". If I tell them exactly what I am telling you now, they NEVER told me something like: "Oh, but I love it so much to be fucked by a bad guy who controls me. It's so much fun!" No, they always complain about bad guys because they don't get what they deserve. If they would really like it so much, they would come back to you instead of complaining, because nobody complains about something they enjoy. But they don't, because they are disappointed. They are disappointed because deep inside they ALL want some kind of short or longer relationship instead of quick sex. This is the first step to understanding women.

maybe in switzerland. but within eu every rules and laws got broke. political and medial manipulation is a fine process, it is that good that majority of people dont even notice it.

So you believe in the conspiracy stories? Another sign that your world views are based on lies and manipulation, and you even think that this is the norm in society, when it actually isn't. Some people simply enjoy to play games so much, that they see their lives as a game, including "playing" other people. They believe that the only truth is in their own perception, and the only rule is to do what is best for themselves, never what is good for somebody else. But this is not the norm, it is a dream, a protection they build around themselves because they can not understand other people or the world around them, and they can not trust other people because they don't understand them, and therefore they think it's not important that other people trust them back. It's even a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the people around them usually think the same way, because assholes attract each other (men AND women).
This is probably why I have to believe you when you say, that you really believe for yourself that every woman you meet wants to fuck with you, because you simply don't see the other 99% of them. In NLP they call this "creating abundance" and "perceived reality". It means to create a warped view about the world. They think, that there is not a common truth in the world, but only their own views. Everybody who follows their rules can be part of their world, and the rest they just ignore. In that way the NLP people think, that they have full control over everything in their lives. They ignore any negative feedback from outside, because it is an attempt to crack their egos, and they don't let that happen. They also believe, that everything negative that happens to them is a direct result of their own deeds, and can never be related to something outside of them. They reject the idea that they are part of the society, because they think they are the ultimate individuals, and they can reach every goal without the help of others. They don't see the people they manipulate and abuse as victims, because of the rule "everything negative that happens to you is a direct result of your own deeds" also can be applied for those victims. So if people feel abused it's always their own fault of acting submissive, and it's probably what they need and deserve. The final story for MOST of these people, and I know examples of this, is that they sooner or later will break into extreme emotions, fears, mania and depression, because they realize their world view has been warped all the time. So refusing to be "weak" and "submissive" or showing emotions usually results in suppression of their natural behaviour and finally a breakdown in the future.

Conclusion:
The world view, that everything will be true, because you decided that it's the truth, everybody likes you, because people who don't are not part of your world, and nobody can be abused, because everybody is always directly responsible for everything that happens to them, is the theory of the true asshole. He will take, break, and destroy, until the same fate will finally strike him by the next asshole.

[Bruno]

maybe after getting to know each other i expects sex and she expects a relationship. but where do we match each other? nobody has a right to get what he expects.

It's not about getting, it's about giving. If you only think about what you can get, you don't understand how good sex works.
Because you get the best sex when people don't think any more about what they can get, only about what they can give.

you make the mistake to place expectations and needs of women above the needs of men.

I don't think in terms like "women above men", because it's not about hierarchy. You are constantly talking about who is in power, when actually this is not important at all. I'm just a guy who likes girls, and as a result I am interested in what makes them happy, this is only logical. If I would be only interested in my own needs, it's better to stay home and have a wank instead of bothering random women with the intention to have sex with them, because then, everybody will be happy. In your case the only one who is happy afterwards is you, because the girl is used as a tool to satisfy your needs, and no girl really enjoys this.

as a man my need is to flirt with and lay many different women.

It's your individual need, not the need of a man in general. Because most men can decide for themselves what they need, instead of only following their bestial instincts. In fact it's the ultimate example of neediness, because you are not able to do something different than your instinct is telling you, you have to obey it. The cool thing about most humans is though, that the ones who enjoy to use their brains, are finally able to withstand every need if their minds are strong enough, and this will only make them more energetic, sexually attractive and healthy. They don't need others to fulfil their needs, they are focused on GIVING others what they need instead. And deep inside, this is the thing what women are looking for, a guy that is not afraid to forget about his own needs, and focusing on hers instead. So it's not a question about whose needs are more important, it's a question if you are strong enough to overrule your own instincts so you can focus on your partner's. It's a question if you understand that women love the men who are able to control themselves instead of those who constantly show typical stupid brainless male animal behaviour, using aggression, dominance and rudeness, because apparently they are so weak, that they are not even able to control their own instincts.

but if you forgot to close the tooth paste and she makes drama about every small incident it is nothing else than a shit test, some guys would become submissive and excuse about everything but i would tell her that she shall shut up and better suck my nuts. and she would do it and respects you for your strength towards her. as man it is all about having nuts.

You think forgetting to close the tooth paste is a small incident for a woman? You really don't understand them then. The house is their comfort zone, the place where she feels responsible for, and of course it needs to be tidy, because it reflects her devotion to the "nest". The house is the place where she wants to raise her kids, and every risk of them being infected by a disease caused by carelessness or negligence shows her, that she deals here with a man who doesn't respect the things women find important. So indeed, if you care about her, it's best to make an excuse. This is not submissive behaviour at all, unless you think that she's not worth it to admit your fault (= showing disrespect). And no woman respects a guy who asks her in a dominant and patronizing way to suck his nuts. Are you kidding me??? Maybe she doesn't say anything because she knows she will only make things worse, but definitely not because she likes to be treated this way. They have some self respect too you know, just like you. Never in my life I heard a woman admire her man for being so brave to subject and humiliate her, it's just the opposite! They will complain, leave, and warn all their girlfriends to avoid an asshole like that who doesn't understand women at all! This is why the asshole's desperate search for women will never end, because he will never learn from his mistakes and try to improve his behaviour. The girl is always the fault because he has no flaws! Yeah right!