help!

[hardware]

If you want to chase after shallow, empty-headed girls then you get what you deserve. I suggest you stop looking for plastic toys and start looking for real women.

Look, I'm neither rich nor particularly handsome. I'm not a smooth talker nor particularly outgoing. OK, I wasn't that bad looking when I was younger but I was never the best looking guy or even the most personable guy in the group. I still got laid - by good looking women.

I had women interested in me whether I was playing in my band or working in a dirty restaurant kitchen. Sure, there were plenty who weren't the least bit interested, and some of the women who were giving me the eye I didn't find all that attractive, but I got laid. Why?

Because I was interesting. I was sure of myself. I exuded confidence. I had a life. If I found a woman attractive I paid attention to her, but I didn't act like I was desperate to get her into bed. I didn't act like I had to have her. I had a life.

A woman was welcome to become part of it but if she expected me to go mooning around after her all day then she was talking to the wrong guy. If she expected me to spend all my money on her then she was talking to the wrong guy. She had to meet me half way.

I was a challenge, not a push-over. In other words, it had damn all to do with your lists of excuses.

[Xenomorgue]

I don't know any women that date based on BMI indexing. That would be pretty funny if they did.

The majority of attractive, fit, thin women expect their potential partner to be attractive, fit and slim (low BMI index). These women would laugh at the idea of dating an overweight guy.

[hardware]

Well, see - you've just narrowed the field to 'fit, thin' women, whatever that means to you. No wonder you don't get laid; when you throw most of the fish back into the sea you won't get fed, either.

[Xenomorgue]

Hardware lives in the USA, I live in the Netherlands. Different places, different customs. In the Netherlands there is a dating scene (bars, clubs, discos). Outside of that scene everybody minds his own business. So if a person chooses to avoid the dating scene (and in fact many singles choose to do so because it is kind of awkward), then NOTHING will happen. The chance that you walk into a supermarket and an attractive woman will initiate a conversation with you, leading to a date, is negligible. In a previous post I explained that a large section of the European population is expected to stay single. That is partly a choice (lifestyle, individualism), and partly due to the circumstances (not meeting the right person under favourable conditions).

[hardware]

insert icon of mooing cow here

"All's fair in love and war." Society may punish you when you break the law but it knows better than to expect you to follow all the conventions when you're chasing a woman. So let's hear no more talk about how the herd is keeping you from getting laid.

If you want to get a woman then you are going to have to suck it up and take risks. You're not a child anymore, to have everything given to you by your parents. You're not a child anymore, to be worrying about what other people will think. You are going to have to earn this.

You are going to have to work. You're going to have to risk rejection and embarrassment. You're probably going to fail before you succeed. So what? Almost every man had to go through the same trials you are facing. We managed to survive with our egos intact. You will, too.

[Euro]

Look, I'm neither rich nor particularly handsome. I'm not a smooth talker nor particularly outgoing. OK, I wasn't that bad looking when I was younger but I was never the best looking guy or even the most personable guy in the group. I still got laid - by good looking women.

Wow... but how?

I guess when Mindy Vega and Zafira would be for 24 hours with me in the elevator (and this elevator would stand still) it would not end as an erotic adventure! No, this 2 hot girls would do nothing. Maybe Mindy Vega would play around with her handy and Zafira would listen to music on her mp3 player. I guess they not even would say anything - to me. They just would look and think: "Huughh, what´s that for a guy? I never had sex with one like him. Huggh, he is so silent and shy and he doen´t look beautiful and is he cool? No, I don´t see it. Hmm, boring stupid guy. I need a real guy! Not a child! Ok he said that he is 26 years old but he looks like a 16 year old teenager! I guess he never played with something else than a computer."

[hardware]

Euro, women are human beings. They don't want to be treated like receptacles for your penis all the time. They want to be treated the same way you'd treat any of the guys.

If I was stuck in the elevator with a woman I would say, "Well, looks like we're stuck here for a while. Why don't we get to know each other? My name is..." and take it from there. If she wasn't interested, fine. If she was, then I'd talk to her about her work, what she does for fun. Do we have any interests in common? That sort of thing.

The only difference between making friends with a woman and making friends with a man is that you don't talk about other women. That is, you don't talk about other women if you want to get this woman into bed with you. After all, she doesn't want to think of you bragging about her to all your friends the next day.

[Xenomorgue]

In the best American debating tradition Hardware starts off with some positivistic kindergarten advice, only to end up with good old ad hominem mud throwing. Reminds me of ADT, where the Croys and Bathgates excelled at this game (with the silent support of Steph and Drew).

[hardware]

"All's fair in love and war," so when you come talking about how society expects you to blah blah blah I say you're a cow, not a man.

A man says "I want that woman and society can go to hell." So long as I violate no laws what are they going to do? Shake their finger at me? Ooh, I'm so scared.

[Xenomorgue]

A man must pursue his own interests and find causes that he considers worth fighting for.

A man may find himself on a path without women. So be it.

[hardware]

Sure, but this is a discussion about what it takes to get a woman. If you want to pursue a path that doesn't involve that then why are you in this discussion?

I don't think Euro is looking for reasons he should continue being unhappy with his lot. I think he's looking for a way out.

Unfortunately, he's looking for a 'quick fix' and there isn't one. That doesn't mean that he's breaking new ground, though. He's traveling the same road many a man has traveled before him.

The problem is, the 'road' metaphor only works so far, because he's going to be dealing with an individual woman and he has to treat her accordingly. He can't just start reading off a script.

[Euro]

Euro, women are human beings.

Sure?

LOL

[Euro]

Euro, women are human beings. They don't want to be treated like receptacles for your penis all the time. They want to be treated the same way you'd treat any of the guys.

Guys are cool. You don´t know another guy, but you just drink a beer with him and talk about girls. It´s just cool and nice. But when you meet a girl downtown somewhere and you look at her or say "hello, lets drink a beer", - they say nothing or they say "Go home and fuck your plasticpussy!", turn around and go the other direction away from you. Girls are bold. The more beautiful they are, the bolder and more evil they are!

[hardware]

Nonsense. My last girlfriend - the beautiful one with all the guys chasing after her - wasn't evil.

She was a fun loving girl who was tired of guys who just wanted to fuck her. She liked me because I took her out and didn't try to get in her pants first thing. I treated her like a real person, not like a sex toy.

We had a much better time than you ever would with one of those plastic girls you're complaining about.

[Xenomorgue]

For one year (2006) I dated a charming, beautiful, friendly woman. We got along very well. We went to restaurants and we listened to jazz music and we talked for hours. But it was friendship only. She kept reservations. As a result there was no progress in the relationship. After a year I had lost interest and broke off the friendship.

Of course I still have my circle of life-time male friends. We often see each other and we email a lot about chess and gambling and investments and the economy and murder cases and other (ir)relevant stuff.

Yeah, there is certainly a difference between MM and MF friendship.